Coaching - what's your views?

[steve]

Have you had any "professional" coaching? Who do you think is the best coach? What was the best thing you learned and was it worth the money? Or in your view it's a waste of time because it's all available on YouTube for free?

[weldec]

Hi Steve, Hope you and the family are all well mate.

Over the years I have contributed to various charity auctions and been successful with my winning bids.

I feel that as club/match anglers our tutors on the day are given the impression that we already know a fair amount and by no means are beginners.  So they adapt their approach accordingly, but mainly to suit the venue you are fishing, which in most cases will be fished on a venue were the pro angler frequents thus ensuring you are guaranteed to catch some fish.  I found as club anglers we fish a variety of venues were a myriad of different tactics come into play,  what we learn from the pro's are the fine detailed things like setting up properly,  when to feed, how to read the water. We as anglers know that if you fish the same lakes week in week out you will soon become a venue expert.
My first ever encounter was through this very forum with Kev Allen when we were given the chance to fish at Barston Lakes with Bob Nudd a day with the legend was great but the fishing was dire as the Carp men had been spodding a few days before so the fish had moved further into the middle, So fine tuning and lets try for some silvers, the Diawa Dorking lads Will Raison,Callum Dicks were practising the same day and even they were struggling  for bites. But my second session with Bob Nudd was such a contrast to our day at Barston. I took my Good friend Terry Cheeseman (RIP) on a day with Bob but this time we travelled to Decoy Lakes, once again Bob commented on our set ups and the fact we were both club /match anglers and he would watch and fine tune anything he thought would help, he decided we would fish banded pellet, feeding very little by toss pot, we had scaled down with Bob's expertise and knowledge of the waters we were about to fish,  this made a massive difference to our catch rates. Terry who was an out and out worm angler caught 100lb on banded pellet and I had 140lb on the same method, it was a fantastic day not just being in the company of a hero of angling but we learnt a lot about the fine tuning and catching big fish on light gear.
Fast forward to Lindholme Lakes and two charity auctions that saw me and Hon Sec Skelly with a day on the newly opened Laurels after its refurbishment.  This was an anglers day of schooling, Nick Speed is one of the most knowledgeable anglers I have had the pleasure to fish with,  we spent the first 1.5 hours in the cafe with copious amount of tea and drawing on paper the different scenarios you may encounter with margins and how the lake bed may be formed,  once again pellet was our main attack and Nick was paramount once again with scaling down of rigs and elastics.  The day was dreadful weather conditions but we both had an amazing day and caught plenty of F1s and carp.  Nick is a master at his trade and well worth booking.
My second day out was with the venues second expert Alex Dockerty, this day once again was all about getting your set up right and being comfortable, we all know the basics of angling but once again the theme was fine tuning and feeding.  We fished on Bonsai peg 45, fishing close in as the conditions were not favourable,  We had a brilliant day of close in work  and the aquarium swim it was named with all species being caught.  Alex won the day on Tench 9-7 with both of is catching some quality Tench on maggot, this was the go to bait of the day.

So summing up my experience, we all hold the knowledge and are far beyond the beginners stage, so we can learn and advance that knowledge by just tweaking a few things.  The one most important factor I feel is the feeding and paying attention to what is happening around you in match conditions.  We can all catch fish and the knowledge these guys have is paramount to us but transporting that knowledge to another venue can sometimes be frustrating.  These pro's have a knack of finding fish and turning a bad peg into a good one, this is something they have as a natural ability and you cannot learn this.
I would certainly recommend a day out with a pro as the confidence it instils in you is paramount. 
One Old boy years ago once said to me when asked "How come you can catch like that", his reply was simply,  "I fish with something on the Hook that you don't, Confidence".
Tight Lines Boys.

Kindest Regards to you and your family Steve.

[steve]

Thanks for the interesting response Billy. Me and Paul had a day with Bob Nudd. What a gentleman. I think he learned a bit from Smiler, he said he enjoyed it 😊
What is obvious is that there is no magic method or bait, just lots of little things that add up. The top lads all seem to have the nack of knowing when to change from one method to another, when to adjust the feed etc.

[Leo Martin]

Good topic this one Steve and interesting questions asked as always.

We know lots of the lads have been on coaching days and some for several times with the same coaches so it will be interesting to read the feedback.

Great answer from Billy sharing his experiences and views as always. 

I do not think there will be a right or wrong answers as we are all individuals who take on board as much or as little as possible from the coaches or our friends, team mates and club members.

Me personally I've also been lucky enough to have a day at Decoy with the legend that is Jack Crabtree and Sir Bob tagged along. Great day on the bank with Bob alternating between us both. Some tweaks to the terminal tackle, advice on the feeding and bait presentation and full nets caught. The coaching started well in advance as his preparation phone call suggests what float size & type, to take and rig lengths and shotting patterns so you were almost ready to go before arrival. Long drive there and back but lovely fishery, loads of good fighting fish and of course on Bobs doorstep so he knows the water like the back  of his hand. As well as the fishing coaching he tells some great tales and life experiences as well, making the day out more than enjoyable and highly recommended to anyone as he still does coaching sessions for those  who want them.

I've also had a day with Chris Hatman Kendal  at Lindholme. This session was a group of 6 session and Chris spent several sessions with each of those on the day. Bait preparation, reading the water / peg, tweaks here and there and fish caught all day after adjustments. Feeder, pole and shallow fishing.

Another day was again with the company of our legend Jack Crabtree and another well known angler from Donny, Tommy Pickering at Lindholme. Again one to one  time after a team chat, groundbait, meat preparation ( it was allowed then), pellet preparation and setting up the terminal tackle etc. Very thorough to even setting up your box correctly and placement of items on side trays. Again plenty of fish caught, short pole, long pole and shallow.

Personally although very enjoyable sessions I think I have learnt more fishing week in and week out (broken leg permitting) with my club mates and in our matches and pleasure session / knock ups. I also struggle for time with my work so  match days take priority in use of my home brownie points shall we say. I do find the more regular I fish, I have more confidence and catch more. This also applies to the more I fish the same fishery, lake or peg shall we say.

Another good learning day was our charity matches when we would sit at side by side with the star anglers and could watch them perform close up. I use to enjoy these days as well for learning experiences.

All things considered I would love to be coached when we are on some of our famous Big Bash matches when the fish dont want to feed or play. This is when I personally feel I would benefit to know which bait, hook size, spot to place the float or feeder in order to turn 2 small perch to a smile when Steve Curtis arrived with the scales. 

what are other peoples views?

[steve]

That would be good Leo, on a BB match when you've tried everything and nothing is working for you. At that point what would a pro do? Probably pack up and go home rather than suffer the embarisment at the scales 😊

[tackletart]

Not having had many coaching days I don't feel able to comment 🤣🤣🤣.
Hi Steve.
I will give you my opinions over the weekend.Just off to bed.
Night hairy melon.

[andy w8]

Personally having had a full coaching day with Nick speed on my 40th ,I would say there is just to much info to take in .Think Keith would agree.
For me 2 hours at a time would be about right as it is information over load .
One thing that mess you up can be 2 different professional anglers say different ideas,that's where I find it is better to stick with one pro and not get confused which will only divert you back to your old ways.
Would agree that as a club we learn more
But just try a lean some thing every time you go fishing

[jasper31]

We all know how to fish but on matches we all expect to catch 100lb every time we go, in that way of thinking we all have too many set ups and plans and you end up chasing fish all the time - especially if you see someone else catch a few.
That was my biggest lesson - keep it simple, read your peg and fish whats in front of you (Unless your Andy W8 and he fishes everywhere apart from in front of him  >:D >:D >:D).
I have had many a lesson from individual to group lessons, i found that individually there was loads of information and very hard to take it all in, but on the group ones run by Speedy and Alex they stuck to one tactic and gave their opinions. That said they did counteract one another a couple of times and had different approaches. The biggest thing was confidence in what you are doing, once you start to question what you are doing that's when you swap tactic and again go back to chasing fish. On individual lessons it nice as you have choice of pegs and loads of room and not very match representative, what i would love to see is - we book someone to come along to one of our matches and him spend like half an hour with each angler and seeing what they are doing in their chosen peg and how they would fish it differently on the day?

[steve]

Some interesting stuff . The information overload is a good point. I suppose that gives Alex an advantage in that he offers short sessions if required.

[steelcowboy]

Hi Steve

Like any sport coaching is key , I used to play golf to a decent standard and when I was playing well this is when I had a lesson never ever when I was playing shite .

As to Fishing I have had days with :
Andy May at Cudworth enjoyed the day learnt a little on method fishing , zero on pole but enjoyable

Very lucky and fortunate to have a Day with Bob Nudd at decoy this was one of the most pleasurable days I have ever had on the bank side , didn't learn loads caught a lot of fish but that was more down to the fish wanting to feed and only two of us on the lake I am still in touch with Bob and I can only echo every ones views that he is one of the nicest Human Beings you will ever have the pleasure of meeting. Would I go with Bob again you bet your bottom dollar on it 👍

Young Alex Dockerty at Lindholme
Awesome ,Brilliant, Amazing , I learnt to much and with having a poor memory just could not remember everything but I will booking again this year . Alex will design the day around what you want , I am guessing I did things a little different I set up in my usual way then asked Alex to check and correct where required then I got of the box and for the 1st couple of hours I drank coffee and just watched Alex fish with my gear this is where I learnt the most by just watching . I have always learned more by pictures than reading and by watching I understand a lot more than just been spoken to .

Ben Fisk group session on feeder fishing
Brilliant this guy is an excellent coach and would love to have a full day with him the only downside he does love fishing at 16mt 😂

My advise is who ever you choose to have a day with pick one method of fishing in the morning then a different method for the afternoon this way you will not be Flooded with to much info remember try to remember and come a way with just 3 or 4 little tips which will improve your fishing . Once you it becomes 2nd nature on what you have learnt when you go fishing this is the time maybe to have a 2nd lesson

Good Luck Steve if you got any questions you are always welcome to pop in for a coffee or just give me a call 👍

[steve]

Thank you Max for your response. Helpful and informative as usual.  :)

[tackletart]

Hi Steve
The main thing i have noticed with the coaching sessions i have had is that the majority of them all set up differently
i:e Pole rigs, floats, shotting and line strength
Method,line strength, hooksize and pattern.
Bomb,type of bomb, type of connection,line choice, fluro carbon or not e.t.c.
I have tried various variations of the above and cherry picked what suits me and what seemed an improvement over what i was doing.

The best coaching day for me was the live match coaching day with Alex on Bonsai.
Alex has been the only one who went through my hooklength box and put me right on my banded pellet  tied hooks.He showed me how he ties his and explained why.This is one of the things i have changed and my lost fish on the banded pellet has decreased.

I have been taught a bit of watercraft and one or two little tricks that i feel have improved my fishing.
I am not a naturally thinking angler but do feel now i am better armed to at least try and think about how i am fishing and why.

Some things you have to do for yourself, as in these last couple of months i have been going fishing and just taking my rods.I had no confidence in my rod fishing and would soon sack it off in favour of the pole.Even if i couldn't make the pole work properly.I just love pole fishing.Prime example was Saturdays match.I set up a pole rig for short and long and my bomb rods.After 10 mins trying on the short pole line i knew i couldn't make it work.Went on the bomb n method for rest of match.This time last year i would have tried and tried to get my pole lines to work and would have failed.

The coaching days aren't the be all and end all as i don't believe they can't really teach you what makes them the anglers that they are but i do believe they can improve an angler of my standard.
You will not learn everything you want to learn from one coaching day unless you just want to iron out one particular problem.

Who would i recommend.Well they all as i said do everything slightly different but for me personally i would say Alex and Paul Wright.
Was it worth it.Yes it was,for the things i have learnt, the memories i have made and to have spent the day with someone at the top of their game.
How has it been funded.Well at nearly 60 there isn't much i want gift wise or tackle wise.So my family just give me money for xmas,birthdays e.t.c
Hope i haven't confused you to much.

[steve]

Thanks Keith. Some interesting points and good advice/food for thought 🤔

Thank you to all who have taken the time to answer this, your responses are much appreciated 👍

[Leo Martin]

As Steve says some great replies, responses and opinions as always, thank you for posting

Question I have when being coached by sponsored anglers I guess they use their sponsors tackle from larger items such as boxes, poles, rods and reels.to the smaller items in everyone's box of line, floats, hooks, feeders  etc.

Do you think the tackle makes any difference  to how their confidence or the fish they catch? You see these professionals switch sponsors and still  catch fish and win matches with the new brand of tackle and equipment? Then reading their write ups and reports the new gear is the best since sliced bread however a few weeks previously the old sponsored equipment was fantastic and caught everything.

[kiwi]

Leo it the same with bowls he have a couple of top bowler here in NZ  for year pushing one make  bowls along came a Australian company with a bigger wallet  now they singing a different hymn it the usual case of money talks